SYB 11: Health Insurance Strategies with Monica Kendall
Table of Contents
- [Music] [Music] welcome to the Caesar business.
- Every time they get to 30 hours they count as one more okay so you pat you...
- Gone too so though the health care reform affected groups...
- Seven and I I was grousing to my sister there had to be somebody that can help...
- At this over the years is I've been better about seeking out the smart ones...
- Those do you run across no that's the point actually we do and learn my...
00:00
[Music]
[Music]
welcome to the Caesar business.com
podcast coming to you from our speakeasy
and lovely downtown Downers Grove our
guest today is Monica Kendall from
healthcare solutions team our hosts are
Kevin O'Flaherty from O'Flaherty law and
myself tony Roark from ADR business
resource group we invite you to check
out our website sees your business comm
if you find the podcast helpful or if
00:44
you want to help us we would appreciate
it if you review us on iTunes or share
our podcasts on social media so without
further ado I'll hand this over to Kevin
so our topic today that Monica is gonna
be talking about is treating every
customer like your future Salesforce but
I go on to start by telling us a little
bit about your business and what you do
I am an independent health insurance
insurance broker
I basically counsel people on health
insurance programs that are good for
them hopefully direct them to something
that's going to work best and for their
01:16
particular situation and you know if
they're if getting a subsidy is
appropriate helping you through that
process if there are small business
showing them how to put together a group
product whatever it needs it needs a so
I've got to ask you what just can tell
us some things that business owners and
entrepreneurs need to know about health
insurance and this kind of changing
climate we're in it's only gotten more
complicated it's really important to
work with someone who specializes in
that field and in the olden days you'd
have people who dabbled health insurance
01:49
dabblers I would say but they were more
interested in selling an annuity or
possibly hooking up with your property
and casualty insurance that sort of
thing
and now health insurance has gotten to
be its own kind of wild animal that
needs somebody who's really in it
understands the law and understands how
to work with all the systems that are in
place so it's important to have a have a
good consultant on your team for that
sure I've talked to people that are in
02:18
your field that don't even understand
we don't even know what the law is right
now because it's it's being applied so
strangely or differently from the way
it's initially written can are we in a
place with the Affordable Care Act right
now or if I'm an entrepreneur and I'm
going off on my own
let's say I've got a chronic illness or
you know I'm someone who would have been
uninsurable you know five or six years
ago are we in a place where most people
can get insurance is just a huge huge up
02:52
about the Affordable Care Act is that
there are no more pre-existing
conditions anyone can from the day it's
effective
it starts 100% coverage from day one
this is huge this is a big big big step
forward and I do hope when this thing
gets refined that they don't throw the
baby out with the bathwater yeah it does
increase the price and that's
unfortunate
and the younger folks are you know
paying a lot for the older folks
basically it was what it amounts to but
you know the fact that even if you're
03:23
young and you had a serious type one
diabetic who was you know 18 years old
and the days gone by as soon as they
came off their dad's plan that they're
in trouble and you know we are in a
better place now
that's fact so that condition is gone so
somebody their insurance coverage day
one yeah yeah well I remember when I was
thinking about starting my business I've
got Crohn's disease which is a chronic
illness and it doesn't really affect my
03:54
daily life at all but when I was
thinking about starting my business the
whole Obamacare thing was going on and I
was like well if there's lot passes I
can probably start my own business but
otherwise you know I need health care
from my employer so that's you know not
to get too political on this show but
you know that's one thing that is a big
powerful thing for business owners that
might otherwise not be able to be a
business owner because they wouldn't
wouldn't be able to get insured unless
they were in a big company absolutely I
mean it took it took a minimum of two
people on a group plan and I still have
situations where that's still a good way
04:25
for a business owner to put together a
plan but you have to have to so you'd
have to figure out a way to get your
wife in on the plan too or something in
order do you have insured you as small
business owner before it's matter of
fact when my husband and I broke off
this was before that we went from a
group of ten at a little business to
just the two of us that's what we had to
do for his coverage because I could get
doing a reading but he could not so do
you see a lot of you know I know that at
some point you hit a threshold and maybe
04:57
you can tell me what that threshold is
where you're required to provide health
insurance to your employees what is that
threshold for it's 50 full-time
equivalents so basically right this year
they're giving out a little bit of a
buffer through the rest of 2015 it's a
hundred full-time equivalents next year
it's going to bus down to where they
wanted it to be in the first place which
is 50 what that means is if you had for
instance 30 full-time employees but you
had another 50 that were 15 hours each
05:27
every time they get to 30 hours they
count as one more okay so you pat you
stack them up like Legos if you will
until you get to that now once they get
to that threshold if that company
doesn't offer a health insurance program
for the for the company then if one of
those individuals runs out and gets
insurance with a subsidy on the
marketplace they get hit with a per
employee a per employee penalty at that
business so it's it's pretty steep it's
pretty pretty rough so then and we're
05:58
looking at that situation where those
folks are now kind of trying to crunch
the numbers do we pay the penalty or do
we actually try to put something
together and I have several people that
I've consulted like that that are gonna
do something next year yeah hard as it
might be for them they're gonna do
something one of one of the things that
came up in the media to pass is that you
got a lot of business owners that are
right on that line and I'm wondering
well in a lot of in the rhetoric is that
06:28
well people are gonna get fired you're
gonna get let go
mm-hmm right so they can get right back
is that really a concern is that so oh
yeah we say absolutely I'm not hiring
we're not gonna go past that Wow and so
that magic number is 50 next year it's
50 so if you have a I'm just pretty
supposing
but I'm curious if you have a business
owner that's business with 55 employees
five of them might be on the hook yeah
Wow I have people they're not gonna do
07:01
it and they can't afford to so they're
trying to figure out a way to keep keep
the doors open and keep the other 49
people employed I mean I feel for him
it's a tough spot that is a nasty it is
in the United States of America is
because most most businesses are under
50 and they're it's eighty nine percent
are under fifty eighty nine percent and
under that 50 special that's huge I
remember before the Affordable Care Act
at least this is my impression if you
07:33
wanted to be competitive and get decent
employees even if you're under 50
employees you had for health insurance
because everyone was looking for that
because they needed to get through their
employer they couldn't get it on you
know the individual market mm-hmm since
the Affordable Care Act you see less
employers offering less small employers
offering health insurance because they
figure well it's out there for people
and if no one else is offering it we
don't have to offer it to be competitive
or do you see a lot of small employers
still offering it so smaller employers
if they're doing it for you know to
attract and retain good employees we'll
08:04
find a way
and they often I mean I have small
businesses they're like four or five
people and they're offering nice
benefits you know the other thing is
because they're not in a situation where
they're gonna get a penalty they do it
differently
well sometimes they'll do a
reimbursement plan you can do a tax-free
reimbursement plan for a small business
where they say instead of them getting
involved in all the you know HR problems
of trying to put together a good plan
they'll say I'll give you employee a
$5,500 tax for you to get your own
08:35
health insurance through our section 105
plan or your or you know our ERISA has
two codes that will work you can do it
125 or 105 if they're both structured
correctly now what's the upside to doing
that as opposed to just giving that
employee an extra $500 they're their
paycheck the tax-free you know basically
you're giving them a third more money to
work with essentially so they can bend
to save on tax
by doing it that way the company does
and the employee it's tax-free to the
09:06
employee so they can you know it'll have
more bang for their buck what did I do
have people just bonus um - but that
would only apply to there has to be
there's only that's only up to how many
employees you can get away you can do
you can do it for much much bigger I
mean there are companies who are much
bigger than that who do that and they
just stayed with the ones that are over
that hundred threshold 200 threshold
whatever they've crunched the numbers
and they've decided well we it makes
more sense for us to offer it this way
09:36
and pay the penalty kind of a payer play
decision you know well we'll put those
things together and we're still in a
better place than if we would offer a
plan interesting yeah yeah and when you
do that health insurance reimbursement
if that if you know employee aid needs
you know $1,300 a month and you're
offering 500 you don't have to cover the
whole 1,300 you can just you know cover
that 500 across the board for all your
employees right oh right and if you do
the one plan that I go through tasks
which is one of the third-party
10:07
administrators that we use it would
allow the employee to pull out their own
salary tax for you to pay their side of
it if they need to okay yeah so you can
you get a double side
I mean you mean you need to talk because
that's interesting that's that kind of
flexibility works well is that you have
particular needs in your family but you
might have an employee has completely
different needs a group plan is one size
fits all kind of approach or it might be
two offerings or maybe sometimes three
10:39
but even so you're limiting people to
the kinds of insurance they're picking
up based on carrier based on you know
out-of-pocket expense whereas when you
do a reimbursement very hands-off you
don't have to worry about what they buy
it's nice and some of this always scared
me about doing a group plan is and
correct me if I'm wrong I was always
under the impression that if I've got
one other employee like me who's got a
chronic illness I don't have any control
over how much I'm gonna be paying on
that group playing so I've gotta offer
it and everybody and I get am I wrong
about that that's gone those days are
11:10
gone too so though the health care
reform
affected groups
individual and that now it's all just
community based rating which is
basically sounds like it means where you
are but it's not your age okay so the
only thing that changes the price of a
plan is the age group so if you're all
going healthy like you and you're young
so that's gonna change where the cost is
not your health conditions even in a
group plan and let me ask you this is
becoming a personal consultation for me
maybe some other business owners have
11:41
similar questions so I'm doing my own
health insurance through the firm and
you know it's expensive it's like for my
family it's like 1,300 bucks a month
maybe that's not expensive I'm I'm happy
to pay it just to be insured if you do a
group plan is there a way to make it
from what I'm understanding you're
saying the fact that I've Crohn's
disease wouldn't necessarily okay so my
end on an individual basis even though
I'm paying for all my employees - on an
individual basis mine might be
12:08
individually cheaper 33 yeah we know
each other for a long time and I'm sorry
I've never picked your brain about it's
always been what kind of excites me
about doing it is that it's sort of the
problem-solving portion of it where you
can you know get gather information
about people and and their particular
needs and then you can really carve up
something that works well it's fun and
there's a lot of you know what I thought
12:46
I was pretty educated on the subject and
it turns out I there was a lot of
misinformation I had rattling around my
brain you so so the biggest thing that I
think I said repetitively for the last
two years is you do not have to go to
health care comm and everybody thinks
you have to go to healthcare.gov that's
the only way you can get health
insurance now absolutely not and it's
it's actually a bad idea the only reason
you would go tothe care go is if you're
if you can qualify for a subsidy and you
want one okay so that's that's the big
13:17
step and if you don't if you don't I
don't know why it seems like it's never
gotten out in the media it never did and
the toast healthcare.gov if the media
pushed it totally completely and and you
know I wonder that what one of the
things I heard early on that bothered me
more than anything was that it's just
like Travelocity
well that's setting up your your your
flight to Florida that's you're probably
gonna be fine with that but for your
health insurance no you need to you need
13:50
to have some help and you need like the
biggest step is to know do I fit into
that subsidy category it's a real easy
calculation to find out I use a
calculator that Kaiser has online and
there's a couple of websites you can do
quick calculations based on your gross
income and decide whether it makes sense
to go that way and if it doesn't don't
go in there risk security of your all
your private information your you know
social security and all this stuff birth
14:21
dates everything and they haven't said
that it's terribly secure to this date
and just don't go there it's not worth
it you know it's you can just buy your
insurance directly from Blue Cross or
Aetna or whatever is the place that's
best for you interesting mmm-hmm no I'd
be yeah I have to mention your previous
life you had can you can't tell everyone
what you did before you were in this
line of work
sure yeah my husband and I had an
animation studio which is still going
strong he still does help them somewhat
14:52
he's down there today working on
something with them but we sold it in
2004 to our two favorite employees and
they're going strong but we I hate we my
daughter was too when we did that I
thought we could do it all baby
studio with me it'll be great but now
that didn't work out it was time to show
it and really be smart about you know
raising our own kids and you know being
there not just giving them over to a
nanny and where was the studio it's on
no high no street so it's six five seven
15:23
west Ohio Street in Chicago they do
mostly television commercials but a lot
of you know specials and stuff like that
too how did you go from innovation
so you know being a small company being
a mom and pop shop because I tended to
be which is the more analytical side
that left-brain right-brain escape okay
my husband right brain and I'm left
brain and because the two of us starting
the company he would be more the
creative side and I'd be the one trying
15:56
to make sure that the bids were high
enough that we actually profited
something and that you know we were
negotiating good deals with our vendors
and and I intended to do all that that
side of stuff and that because we had a
health insurance broker that went AWOL
on us at some point I don't even know
when it happened I sort of took that on
too and I had my own Bugaboos with the
health insurance with getting our
employees covered and keeping you know
because even then they were holdouts
with group we had a group plan and we
16:28
had holdout so he had a he had people
who had pre-existing conditions on that
group plans and then that was that shows
you how old I am but so it's always been
something that bothered me and then when
we sold the company I didn't do anything
for a couple of years and then I wanted
to get my I had an itch to get back to
work and I wanted to being self-employed
and at one point had a huge amount of
problems with some medical billing from
when I had my twin boys who learn now
16:58
seven and I I was grousing to my sister
there had to be somebody that can help
you with this and she said you know
Monica that's called a health insurance
broker oh so then the light bulb went
off and said that's what I want to do so
I got my license and got educated and
got on with it I've loved every single
second story like that your your
animation studio did some pretty famous
commercials too I have to mention that
before we move on as a child of the 80s
but what are some of the commercials
17:29
that people would know um we did a lot
we do they still do a lot of Lucky
Charms and Trix cereal and
mr. clean and tons of critters like that
we had a really fun when we did for that
was a Super Bowl spot in which they did
all the a bunch of icon characters like
that having Thanksgiving there it was
like a dinner so you had Count Chocula
and a giant and all these guys around a
dinner table for it was a MasterCard
commercial so that was a lot of fun a
18:04
celebrity in our master so let's talk
about your topic a little bit which is
turning your your client into your
future sales force what are some things
you've learned about that or strategies
that you use that is that has been sort
of the biggest epiphany in my business
is that I have found that you just don't
have any pretense about just doing your
absolute best work for each person don't
worry about that well how you're gonna
be remunerated because that person will
18:37
go out and talk about you and send five
more people your way now if they're a
jerk you probably don't want them
talking to anybody but you know I find
that that that kind of person often is
not a jerk yeah they might be really
needy and they might need a lot of
hand-holding but man they're the most
grateful people and they send other
wonderful people to you and it's just
been you know at this point I've been
able to pull back on advertising I've
been able to it's almost at this point I
19:07
really do the phone rings and it's
somebody saying yeah you know so until
told me to give you a call because I was
just telling him that I'm coming off my
group plan I need some coverage time
hour less guests Ben turn if ski talked
about how he used to operate his
photography studio no way that was
focused on him and his work and then he
switched to a client focus and that kind
of changed the way it did its business
were you always when you went into this
from the beginning were you always you
19:42
know that client focused or did did you
flip a switch at some point maybe
somewhat but
the more I realize that the more you put
in to it the more you get back out of it
you know just it only solidified it for
me and I got more confident and not
worrying about the bottom line on every
transaction you know that that just
isn't it isn't meaningful you know if
you're dealing with if you're dealing
with decent people they always come
around you know you're casting your read
20:14
on the waters I've had tons of people
who I could do nothing for who have
referred me like crazy you know and I
still can't do something for them
they're still right where they should be
[Laughter]
now you're communicating
so there's there's kind of a balance you
have to strike though too right because
you're selling your time
and do you ever get those clients that
because I do I you know I I try to
provide above and beyond service to but
every once in a while and that every
once in a while a lot of the time we'll
have clients that abuse that and want us
20:56
to be our you know psychologists and you
know they but they can't afford to pay
us to be on the phone with them at an
hourly rate and you know we've had to
find a balance between providing
excellent customer service and going
above and beyond and you know not
letting clients bill run up while
they're chatting away with us on the
phone it's a little easier when you bill
hourly but for you you're you know
getting paid the same either way so
you're the one taking that hit right how
do you how do you strike that balance
between just providing amazing service
21:26
and being there for for a native client
versus do you ever have to draw a line I
do yeah there are people who do abuse
that and the the good thing about that
is that it's not hard to say no you know
it's it's very easy to say we're beyond
where I can help you and if they if
they're you know there was a time and
where I would take abuse from people no
more people beating down your door you
don't have to do that
just say you know you know and a lot of
21:57
times less sophisticated individuals
will mix up what I do with what's going
on in the world okay
and as opposed to see me as a conduit to
a means to an end they will say they'll
mix me up a blue cross although mix me
up with and it's like oh no no this this
is where you need me more than you know
because I understand that their
administration is five weeks behind and
I'm going to know the back door and this
is where we need to get this fixed and
the good news is and I've gotten better
22:28
at this over the years is I've been
better about seeking out the smart ones
and trying to find a place where the
people aren't too bright
and I have a really smart book of
business at this point it doesn't come
overnight you know it's okay just kind
of take it as it comes when you're
dealing with sophisticated clients or
you know respectful clients everything's
gravy you can you can provide amazing
service to them and you don't have to
strike any balance cuz they're gonna be
respectful with you and it's when you're
22:59
dealing with that small percentage of
people that are are not respectful of
you know what you're doing in your time
that you run into trouble and sometimes
it's a very small percentage and
sometimes you just gotta let that go you
know you just gotta chalk it up to
that's my one for the week just awesome
because I had one just couple weeks ago
where referred to me out of out of
Florida she called me up and said she
was she's she's this her words I don't
23:31
know if I'd ever get to this point cuz I
don't even want it I wouldn't want to
have a no matter how about dire my
situation is I wouldn't want to put this
phrase together she said I'm dying of
cancer and the next few months I know
I'm going to need this this and we're
losing our coverage I was on Cobra from
my past employer that I've exhausted
that now we need to move on my husband
spoke to a guy he knows who's a broker
here in Florida and we found a plan we
24:00
think we like but I wrote to so-and-so
and they suggest I give you a call to
just double check it I say
tell me who you're gonna see tell me
about the doctors that you see tell me
about all the stuff we we kind of you
know debug the whole situation and she
she very quickly had a list of important
things now the plan that the other
broker was going to sell her it was an
HMO and it was a platinum plan which
means there was very little
out-of-pocket which is nice especially
24:31
for them when they knew it was going to
be an expense but it wasn't expensive
plan to did very minimal research to
find out that all of her doctors and her
main Cancer Center were not in that way
so didn't didn't call back right away
first then sought out some answers so I
had about five or six plans to laid out
to explain that these will work and in
this scenario it says once an HSA and I
think this is gonna be your best bang
for your buck they didn't have less
premium in you're gonna have a better
25:01
way of paying for your had pockets so I
call her up she's almost in tears
because she feels very frustrated with
this whole situation and the whole way
all of this transpired and I and she
said I you know I really think you need
to talk to my husband he's the one
that's been pulling me strings I said
absolutely put him on the phone I'm here
you know no problem so I do it a screen
share which is the way I usually do my
long-distance business where I can show
my computer screen with my client they
can see the plans I walk them through
25:32
the details explain everything got him
all set up he goes yeah this is
definitely what we want thank you so
much and I said no your wife told me you
had another broker that you were working
with so you know I do you want to sign
up with it well let me let me think
about it a little bit well they actually
sent an email cover copied me on the
email to the other broker but the plan
that I was suggesting you know the other
broker and said I spoke to this woman in
Illinois she's come up with this great
26:04
plan this looks like what we want can
you sign us up for and cover copied me
on the email and you know I looked at my
husband and he goes you you won
basically your class you approached one
because he weeded himself out of your
life and you said you're absolutely I
got that right sometimes
yes I learned that I learned that a long
time in retail yeah
and I used to work at Marshall Fields in
the electronics department okay
obviously Oprah you're gonna get some
characters yeah right that think just
26:34
because their money blah blah blah some
time is just better you know go to the
manager this dude wants this I think we
should give it to him you know he spent
two grand on TV give him that that
bookcase for $119 wit just throw it in
just more than worth it because they
come back stronger when you give in to
them they come back hard we had a guest
27:05
on Chuck Zimmerman from Sandler training
centers who talked about you know sales
approaches for salespeople and he's like
well the customer has an approach to and
it's mislead steal information and
mislead again and then hide and that
reminded me of that and that's something
that we have to be careful about to you
know what what people are paying us for
is attorneys is you know what's in our
heads and if we you know it's a balance
between educating people and you know
giving spending three hours with someone
27:36
and giving stuff away for free the
product that we're selling and that's
that's a tough balance to strike to
that's and that's that's an unfortunate
that hurt me to hear that story before I
would have been you know doing every mom
I could on that but the truth is that my
husband keeps me grounded and said no do
you realize what a great gift that was
that that guy revealed himself so well
and he's not in your life yeah and
that's true and honestly how many of
28:07
those do you run across no that's the
point actually we do and learn my
company to my point about the Sandler
thing is that that kind of assumes what
has not been what I've experienced that
you may be 50/50 that people are 50%
jerks and 50 my experience has been it's
much more good folks may be much more
weighted in that zone and I don't know
if
I'm a Pollyanna or not but I don't hit
too many people like that guy I ran in
28:38
the cells trainer got when I was selling
carpet backing in late 80s and he's
thoroughly convinced I can't remember
this man's name but he was thoroughly
convinced there was only 10 people that
are really really bad in a sales world
they just they just circulate they morph
into something else it's a he at this
point was you know don't let the bad one
you know just don't shake it off move on
29:07
yeah it's not it doesn't make it so
other than just being generous with your
time with people that need your help
are there other ways that you kind of
wow your clients and and provide an
amazing customer service that turned
them into advocates for you I always I
use my cell phone as my main phone and
then I always pick up her or take a text
24/7 if they need me and I tell them
that I'm ready and I once again it's
29:42
dealing with good folks because I say
when I'm closing the deal this is myself
you're in the ER at 3 in the morning and
you need something use it you know
that's what I'm here for
but you know trust me that you're gonna
wake up my kids too so be you know and
I've had a couple of situations where I
have gotten a late-night call and it's
been an emergency you know so okay
that's the best thing we could come up
with did we give my cell phone number
out on our website and you know I try to
answer I'd you know I don't always
30:13
answer I do my best then you know try to
be accessible and that's you know be
accessible and be genuine and be there
to help people that's you know as a
service provider that's probably the
best thing you can do and I think it
goes along with having that smart book
of business because they know when they
need trouble when they're in trouble and
they really need your help
they're not gonna abuse that you know do
you ever ask for referrals or do you
just provide a good service and the
referrals come I don't ask
and I that's another thing that I've
been told at my company I mean I
30:44
tourists swim upstream from the
they trained us at but I don't ask what
they come you know I just I don't know I
feel like it's present it's presumptuous
of me to say that somebody might be
wrong but I feel like they're gonna do
it if they feel motivated it's not a
problem you know and if if I have to ask
and it might be a trick I've always been
afraid to ask for referrals because I
don't want to you know look like I'm
31:15
begging for referrals you know it's see
yeah everybody wants referrals but
everyone should know that everyone
forced referrals back you don't want to
come off as sleazy you know I don't want
to come off as like you're using them
for something no not at all and they
they're so happy to give it if you do
well by them let's say they become your
best sales force it's it's a great thing
it takes a little time to build but once
it's there and it's going it's it
becomes in an annuity that continues so
31:46
that's great so Monica unless you've got
any other questions no I'm good like if
someone wants to reach out to you to get
some help with their health insurance
how can they reach you that cellphone
thirty one to six seven one three nine
three eight I'm not in Chicago it's just
my old old cell phone number from when I
was I'm actually mostly out of my home
office in Hinsdale but our company's
office is by the Yorktown mall and one
bar do you have any geographical
limitations on people you hope but
32:17
sounds like you don't because you were
working with Florida and I'm licensed in
twelve states all the ones that are tant
tangential to Illinois and then a few
others where people have referred me
basically you know quite a bit of
business out of Florida because there's
a lot of snowbirds
and then Texas that's another big one
it's not as obvious right yeah I mean
basically if you're in the Midwest you
can probably a you probably help them
32:48
out and I I do also like I've had people
who've come to me and wanted and
referred somebody to that's in New
Jersey and I have some connections that
I can hand them out to okay
thanks so much for your time today it's
been a pleasure oh yeah website Monica
for insurance calm with the number four
either way you can order spell it for fo
r or you can put the number for Monica
with a CMO at ICA for insurance calm
okay great thank you
thanks Mel thank you
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